Markets

U.S. open in 5 hrs, 33 mins
10,450.95
132.79
 
1.29%
2,176.01
29.97
 
1.40%
1,106.24
14.86
 
1.36%
100.188
0.125
 
0.12%
5,318.91
-36.59
 
0.68%
9,401.58
-96.10
 
1.01%
22,423.14
-348.25
 
1.53%
0.011
 
0.74%
0.22
 
0.25%
1,164.50
-0.20
 
0.02%
77.34
-0.22
 
0.28%
Get Quote for:

Will This Recession Become a Depression?

By TOM RAUM and DANIEL WAGNER
,
AP
posted: 265 DAYS 18 HOURS AGO
comments: 2759
Text SizeAAA
WASHINGTON (March 2) - A Depression doesn't have to be Great — bread lines, rampant unemployment, a wipeout in the stock market. The economy can sink into a milder depression, the kind spelled with a lowercase "d."
Skip over this content
Great Depression unemployment line
AP File

During the worst of the Great Depression, unemployment peaked at more than 25 percent. As of January, the Labor Department says 7.6 percent of Americans were unemployed, up from 4.9 percent a year earlier.

Skip over this content


And it may be happening now.
The trouble is, unlike recessions, which are easy to define, there are no firm rules for what makes a depression. Everyone at least seems to agree there hasn't been one since the epic hardship of the 1930s.
But with each new hard-times headline, most recently an alarming economic contraction of 6.2 percent in the fourth quarter, it seems more likely that the next depression is on its way.
Skip over this content
"We're probably in a depression now. But it's not going to be acknowledged until years go by. Because you have to see it behind you," said Peter Morici, a business professor at the University of Maryland.
No one disputes that the current economic downturn qualifies as a recession. Recessions have two handy definitions, both in effect now — two straight quarters of economic contraction, or when the National Bureau of Economic Research makes the call.
Declaring a depression is much trickier.
By one definition, it's a downturn of three years or more with a 10 percent drop in economic output and unemployment above 10 percent. The current downturn doesn't qualify yet: 15 months old and 7.6 percent unemployment. But both unemployment and the 6.2 percent contraction for late last year could easily worsen.
Skip over this content
Another definition says a depression is a sustained recession during which the populace has to dispose of tangible assets to pay for everyday living. For some families, that's happening now.
Morici says a depression is a recession that "does not self-correct" because of fundamental structural problems in the economy, such as broken banks or a huge trade deficit.
Or maybe a depression is whatever corporate America says it is. Tony James, president of private equity firm Blackstone, called this downturn a depression during an earnings conference call last week.
The Great Depression retains the heavyweight crown. Unemployment peaked at more than 25 percent. From 1929 to 1933, the economy shrank 27 percent. The stock market lost 90 percent of its value from boom to bust.
And while last year in the stock market was the worst since 1931, the Dow Jones industrials would have to fall about 5,000 more points to approach what happened in the Depression.
Few economists expect this downturn will be the sequel. But nobody knows for sure, and nobody can say when or whether the downturn may deepen from a recession to a depression.
In his prime-time address to Congress last week, President Barack Obama acknowledged "difficult and trying times" but sought to rally the nation with an upbeat vow that "we will rebuild, we will recover."
The next day, Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke told the House Financial Services Committee that the "recession is serious, financial conditions remain difficult." He held out a best-case hope that it might end later this year, with "full recovery" in two to three years.
Despite the tempered optimism, the economic outlook remains grim. Consumer confidence has fallen off the table, stocks are at 12-year lows, layoffs come by the tens of thousands, and credit remains tight.
The current downturn has many of the 1930s characteristics, including being primed by big stock market and real estate booms that turned to busts, said Allen Sinai, founder of Boston-area consulting firm Decision Economics.
Policymakers and economists note there are safeguards in place that weren't there in the 1930s: deposit insurance, unemployment insurance and an ability by the government to hurl trillions of dollars at the problem, even if it means printing money.
Skip over this content
Skip over this content
Skip over this content
Before the 1930s, any serious economic downturn was called a depression. The term "recession" didn't come into common use until "depression" became burdened by memories of the 1930s, said Robert McElvaine, a history professor at Millsaps College in Jackson, Miss.
"When the economy collapsed again in 1937, they didn't want to call that a new depression, and that's when recession was first used," he said. "People also use 'downward blip.' Alan Greenspan once called it a 'sideways waffle.'"
Most postwar U.S. recessions have come after the Fed has increased interest rates to cool down rapid economic growth and inflation. Later, the Fed lowers rates and helps restart the economy, with the housing and auto sectors — both sensitive to interest rates — leading the way.
This time is different: As Senate Banking Committee Chairman Chris Dodd, D-Conn., said, "Our housing and auto sectors are leading us not out of recession, but into it."
What's more, the Fed no longer has the ability to kick-start recovery by lowering interest rates. The central bank has already effectively lowered the short-term rates it controls to zero.
And there are no guarantees the massive economic stimulus package and series of bank bailouts will stave off a nightmare recession, or worse.
"It is certainly plausible that the kinds of policy measures that have been good enough to tame the business cycle are no longer adequate in a fast-moving, highly leveraged, highly networked economy," said Anirvan Banerji of the Economic Cycle Research Institute.
Today's economic indicators don't project a depression. But Banerji is cautious. Economic data in 1929 didn't show that the stock market crash was about to lead to years of economic misery, either.
"It did not look like the kind of plunge that would be a depression until after the recession began," Banerji said. "The Great Depression didn't start out as a depression. It started out as a recession."
The depression that consumed most of the 1870s and followed something called the Panic of 1873 makes a better comparison to what's happening now, said Scott Nelson, a history professor at the College of William and Mary.
Financial markets had become centrally located by the 1870s, notably in London. And nations had not yet enacted the protectionist trade policies that were in place by the 1930s.
The results were not exactly promising. Gangs of orphans roamed city streets as men moved west to pursue cattle industry jobs. Widows struggled to make money by serving unlicensed liquor. Thousands of workers, many Civil War veterans, became transients.
The downturn lasted more than five years, according to the economic research bureau — four times as long as what the United States has endured so far in this downturn.
Today's recession is already longer than all but two of the downturns since World War II. But for now, public officials are being extremely cautious about the D-word. Alfred Kahn, a top economic adviser to President Carter, learned that lesson in 1978 when he warned that rampaging inflation might lead to a recession or even "deep depression."
When presidential aides asked him to use another term, Kahn promised he'd come up with something completely different.
"We're in danger," he said, "of having the worst banana in 45 years."
Copyright 2009 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. Active hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL.
2009-03-02 18:41:51
Bookmark:

Recent Comments

1 - 10 of 2759
2759 comments

Jrhunting3 08:24:23 PM Mar 04 2009

kiss your ass and your jobs and your money goodby. the goverment has the upper hand and there's nothing we can do about it.

Jrhunting3 08:22:56 PM Mar 04 2009

well, what can we do about it. we the american prople trusted in goverment and we are not, i say again, NOT allowed to vote on what they do with our money. we don't have a chance. we are screwed. if they don't listen, what do we do? overthrow the goverment? then we would be in worse shap with rampet terror everwhere. what's the answer? should there be a link to the whitehouse we could e-mail with our conserns. will they listen or give us a reply,or just say everything is allright. we are just hard working people carring the goverment on our backs and they don't care what our problems are,we are to give and give, it's the american way. kiss you ass and your jobs and your money goodby!!!

jackjack5 07:29:35 PM Mar 04 2009

Having survived the Great Depression, and studied it, in my opinion, we are already in a Depression, just that it hasn't become Great yet. Because of the many reforms that were made during and after the Great Depression, it is unlikely to become nearly as bad as the Great Depression. Also, President Obama is doing what Pres. Hoover should have done to stem the Depression. There are many who object to what Pres. Obama is doing but because of it, while it may get worse, the recovery will come much faster than it did during the Great Depression. I am a fiscal conservative but I fully support what Obams is doing. I think the mossback Republicans are nuts.

Mahabe218 02:29:11 PM Mar 04 2009

Those who insult others who disagree with them most often are from the party out of power. Remember if you can, that the 'Great Depression' of the 1930's began as a result of there being no oversight of the stock market. At that time one could buy stock on 'margi' of only 10%. When the market dropped, the broker called the owner and demanded money to cover the stock drop or it would be sold off. As there were so many stocks bought on the low margin a panic selling began and we were off to about eight years of recovery. It began in 1929 when Herbert Hoover was the President of the United States and it was the war in Europe that caused our nations recovery. We had to become the 'Arsenal of Democracy' and that put people to work. War bonds were sold to the public when we entered the war in order to finance it. Now we have a war, (two exactly) and we are no longer the 'The arsenal of democracy' as we have again failed to maintain oversights of the market and the banks which were permitted

Twhsr262 01:14:15 PM Mar 04 2009

I am sick and tired of people not understanding how our Gov. works. Its the congress that spends and allocates money! Its the congress that has chased business out of this country for decades and its congress that is ruining our country today! PEOPLE you had better start paying attention to what is happenening today!Do you know that the caps put on energy companies will cost the average american over 120.00 more a month in utilities next year! This what you people who wanted change are getting! the spending that s going on will destroy this country and every credible economist agrees with it!

Twhsr262 01:09:03 PM Mar 04 2009

I am getting sick and tired of people like Chris Dodd giving his opinion, and further more the media for even asking for it! weare in this place due to out of control spending from congress for more than 20 years. The very fact that home ownership turned into an entitelment not an earned privelage has been the very down fall of this economy! The congress has pushed companies over seas for decades! And the american people sat and watched this happen! Ok so everyone wanted change and now they have it! People are not paying attention to what is happenening! There are decisions being made that will cost every american regardless of political affiliation, tens of thousands of dollars for decades to come! I am very disturbed how little people understand what they thought they voted for and what they got! Its time for america to SAY ENOUGH of this spending! Our Future is gone as we know it if this is not stopped today! We cannot give hand outs to those who are not willing to earn it!

UserJoe1020 12:09:26 PM Mar 04 2009

They need to get the Bush probe underway. The sooner that happens, the soner Rove, Bush and Bushs boss Cheney can be tried and executed as the garbage they are.

Ncwomanisme 11:00:48 AM Mar 04 2009

We are pretty much there already!

Robrob79 09:59:43 AM Mar 04 2009

KNOW HOW TO CREATE A DREPRESSION. Hire 150,000 govt. workers while laying off 1,000,000 private workers.

Narrcissa 09:21:06 AM Mar 04 2009

We can all look to blame one president or another, or economist or another....but the true culprit here is called "greed". Funny thing, greed has never been the spoken word, or at least I haven't seen it. Greed is the self-serving desire for the pursuit of money, wealth, power, food, or other possessions, especially when this denies the same goods to others. In that self-serving venue ....people put aside "accountability" and expect others to view their desire as it belongs to them!So, what is the opposite of greed? We all need to think about that as we sink into this depression and see what we Americans have always been so good together at. United we stand...divided we fall!

1 - 10 of 2759
2759 comments

Add your own Comments

Interest Rates

TypeCurrentAPR
30 Yr Fixed Mtg5.16%5.39%
5/1 ARM4.32%4.24%
$30K HELOC5.82%0.00%
36 Month New Car Loan7.20%0.00%
1 Yr CD1.59%1.60%